Lessons from Tyrese Hinkins-Jones

Ulemu Luhanga: 00:02

Hello listeners, welcome to Educational Landscapes: Lessons from Leaders. On today's episode, we are going to learn from Tyrese Hinkins-Jones. Welcome to the show, Ty. To begin-

Tyrese Hinkins-Jones: 00:19

Sorry. I was just going to say I'm happy to be here.

Ulemu Luhanga: 00:22

We are happy you are here. All right. So to begin, what is your education leadership title?

Tyrese Hinkins-Jones: 00:30

So my current role that I serve is the director of programs for medical education for Emory School of Medicine Medical Education Department.

Ulemu Luhanga: 00:42

Wonderful. What do you do in your role?

Tyrese Hinkins-Jones: 00:46

So the way I view it is I operationalize the curriculum in partnership with our faculty leaders, our faculty dean, who oversees all the other faculty leaders for courses, clerkships and threads. And so under that umbrella, we're doing assessment, we're doing program evaluation, we're doing accreditation, compliance, we're managing systems and technology. And then we're also dabbling a little bit in instructional design and technology as well. So all of that encompasses what we do as a team with various different team members and their skill sets.

Ulemu Luhanga: 01:26

That is amazing. That is a lot under one team.

Tyrese Hinkins-Jones: 01:30

It is a lot, but we love it, right?

Ulemu Luhanga: 01:33

That is wonderful to hear. So what skills do you use given the breadth that falls under your role? What skills do you use in your role?

Tyrese Hinkins-Jones: 01:44

So where I feel like I haven't been able to do this in the past, most recently been dabbling a lot in my skillset related to instructional design and technology especially, and how to utilize technology in the curriculum, but also really looking at operations, organization management, project management as we're collaborating with other teams and the projects that we're doing. And then supervision, of course, as you have your team members that contribute to the work that you're doing under the team.

Ulemu Luhanga: 02:14

Wonderful, thank you. So what was your journey that led to this current role?

Tyrese Hinkins-Jones: 02:21

So interesting journey. So when I started at Emory in 2007, it was coming into a role where I was just focused on managing the systems for what we use in the curriculum. As I've had many experiences throughout, it has kind of migrated to doing so many different things under the curriculum, working with our faculty leaders, developing different projects that help streamline processes. So the journey itself has really been kind of learning on the job, and then collaborating with others to do things better and to streamline processes. And it's been a fun journey. It's not been hard. There's been challenges, but it's welcome challenges because it makes us better as a team, individuals altogether, collectively. So journey is an interesting word in that... Yeah, it has been a journey, but it's been a welcome journey in the processes of all the things that we've been doing from 2007 to now.

Ulemu Luhanga: 03:35

That is great. So thinking about that journey, can you talk a bit more about what your background is, your educational background?

Tyrese Hinkins-Jones: 03:44

Yeah. So coming right out of my bachelor's degree as a psychology major. In undergrad, I served as the student financial aid assistant, and that kind of opened my eyes to being involved in higher education. Didn't even think about that being an option for me. I thought I was going to be a school teacher and many other things, counselor, all that good stuff. We'll have to talk another day about how that shifted very quickly. And so after doing that, I got an opportunity at Troy University, working in the graduate program. And my first job there was academic advisor working and recruiting students from rural areas where they didn't have colleges and universities to help them get started with their graduate studies. That migrated into me working in student affairs, admissions, doing supervision, all that good stuff, to then working in the technical system, excuse me, of Georgia where I worked at Georgia Virtual College. And that was my first experience working a virtual experience for higher education.

Tyrese Hinkins-Jones: 04:55

And so I managed, trained all of the coordinators that worked in student affairs, admissions across the state of Georgia in every single technical college. So as you can see, my background has definitely been adult education for all of my years involved in this work for higher ed. And then migrating from there into medical education in 2007, and I've been in medical education ever since. In terms of my educational background, got my master's in higher ed administration. And then decided in 2017, '18 that I wanted to go back and really look at curriculum and how I could be instrumental in that. And I'm really big on technology, and so I decided I was going to get a specialist degree in instructional technology.

Tyrese Hinkins-Jones: 05:45

Got a little backlash from some folks about that because, "Why aren't you going to get a PhD or EDD or whatever?" Actually, it was more PhD. And I felt like I knew that technology has always been involved in every role that I did, and so I wanted to have that paper that said, "Hey, I have this in my background, I have this in my wheelhouse." And so that was my intent in getting the specialist... With the hopes of actually being able to expand upon that later in, hopefully,. The near future with an EDD in hopefully instructional design, instructional technology, and continuing that work because that has been where I found the most joy in my work.

Ulemu Luhanga: 06:25

That is wonderful. Thank you. That is quite an amazing journey to where you've come. So in reflecting on that journey, what do you wish you knew before stepping into your current role?

Tyrese Hinkins-Jones: 06:42

So this was a question that I kind of struggled with, I'll be honest, because you never know what you don't stepping into any role that you do. But I think the biggest thing that I wish I kind of knew before getting into this is dealing with people, and how they work, and how they react. And I think I assumed that everyone had the same passion that I had in doing the work that we do, and found out very quickly that it's not the case. And that's okay, it doesn't have to be that way. But I think if someone like me who's like, "Okay, I'm passionate, I want to do this and I want to do these projects," and then you get up with someone that's like, "Oh yeah, that's cute. Yeah, we'll think about that. Oh, okay, great." And then push it off to the side.

Tyrese Hinkins-Jones: 07:31

It's like, "Oh, okay. So we don't..." And not that I expect every single person to be the same, but it's like when you're doing this type of work, you're not doing it... I mean, medical education is not easy. You don't just step into this knowing what it is, and so you assume that people stepping into this work really have a passion for it and want to grow upon that and developing that. And I really discovered that, yeah, that's not everybody's path and that's okay. So I think the peopling part of it has definitely been a journey in itself, and so I wish I had kind of prepared myself for that. And that's probably the biggest thing out of all is really the people part, because I look at myself as someone that can definitely work with anybody, but I think when that energy doesn't match all the time, it's hard to stay motivated in what you're doing. So it's probably the biggest thing out of... I'm sure there's more, but that's the one that definitely sticks with me.

Ulemu Luhanga: 08:27

I think that's such an important thing because education is all about people.

Tyrese Hinkins-Jones: 08:32

Exactly.

Ulemu Luhanga: 08:36

All right. So what continuing professional development do you do in order to keep up with the needs of your role?

Tyrese Hinkins-Jones: 08:44

So this one is fun for me because as much as I don't consider myself a people person, I love connecting with other people that are in like-minded roles and are doing the same thing, or it looks like they're doing the same thing or very similar. And connecting with them and just having those one-on-one conversations. But also, something I've recently gotten into that I didn't before was listening to podcasts. And so there's one in particular that I listen to. His name is Dr. Luke Hobson, and he's really big, very well-known, and through MIT, I believe, in terms of instructional design. And so listening to his podcast and listening about the latest and greatest about what's happening in instructional design has been a thing for me, and listening to that. And so that's another way. I'm not a big reader, so you're not going to catch me reading a book or anything like that, but I can listen to you talk and hear that passion in your voice, and so that drives energy for me.

Tyrese Hinkins-Jones: 09:45

So listening to the podcast, definitely connecting with people. And then even in my own space, funny I said space because I've created something that came out of something that was happening within our own institution in terms of staff, and not being truly recognized for the work that they do and their expertise and skillsets. So bringing people together to talk about those different spaces that we're in, especially in this work that we do in medical education, that's probably been the thing that's brought the most joy and latest for me. And so just connecting with people, talking about things that are really involved in the work that we do, we easily can learn from each other just by having conversations. And so I think that's the biggest thing for me in terms of professional development, connecting with people, talking about what we do and how we can learn from each other is the biggest professional development for me.

Ulemu Luhanga: 10:39

Wonderful. And so you mentioned SPACE. What does SPACE stand for?

Tyrese Hinkins-Jones: 10:45

Yes. So SPACE stands for Staff Professionals Across the Continuum of Education. And these are for staff professionals that work in medical education. They're not clinicians, they don't go in see patients, but they are contributing to the work that we do to educate our future physicians, future doctors. And just really, connecting about how we do the work behind the scenes to keep our programs going. And so this has been really fun. It started as a state group and now it's becoming a national section of the Group on Educational Affairs. And so I'm really looking forward to how this is going to grow and connect people across all of the US and beyond because we need to be recognized for these spaces and the work that we do, and really how we connect and drive the work of the programs and connect with our faculty to really push the work forward. So I'm looking forward to how this is going to grow, and I know it's going to grow because this is something that has been needed for a really long time.

Ulemu Luhanga: 11:48

That is wonderful. Making space through SPACE.

Tyrese Hinkins-Jones: 11:51

Absolutely. I love that. I'm going to use that as a tagline.

Ulemu Luhanga: 11:57

You are most welcome. I'm glad I have this moment. So you've talked about podcasts, you've talked about SPACE. Are there any other conferences or things that you attend for the networking you do?

Tyrese Hinkins-Jones: 12:12

Yeah. So most recently, especially with the medical education space, going to AAMC Learn Serve Lead has been very instrumental in my growth and development, and just learning from other people. Something more local regionally is the Southern Group on Educational Affairs, and that's SGEA, affectionately known for those that are in the region. And connecting with folks within the regions too because you have those local connections and regional connections of people that's doing the same work. And so that's been a point... We've not always been welcomed at those, and that's not a negative, it's just not been... We've created space spaces for ourselves in these different conferences. And so the conferences do help a lot, but I'm really big on just the personal connections, especially when it comes to, "What do you do? How does what you do connect what I do, and how can we learn from each other?" So yeah, absolutely. The conferences are a big piece of that, but I like the personal connection.

Ulemu Luhanga: 13:15

That is wonderful. And so I'm going to put you on the spot. There's one more that I've heard of linked to you called GAWHE.

Tyrese Hinkins-Jones: 13:22

Yes, you are correct. So GAWHE is the Georgia Association for Women in Higher Education. This is one that I got involved in almost five years ago as just a member, trying to learn more and keeping connected with the higher education space, knowing that I'm working in medical education. And then most recently, in the last two, three years, working on the executive group as the VP of programs, and now soon to be the president of GAWHE the end of February going into March. And so this is a new, exciting experience for me. It's putting me out there in an uncomfortable space because I like to do the work behind the scenes, but this is a challenge that I need, especially in this point in my career, to really just extend myself and putting myself out there.

Tyrese Hinkins-Jones: 14:18

Something that I don't do well is share what I do and my experiences and my expertise, and so trying to do that a little bit more, and this is definitely pushing me to do that. So I'm really excited about the new direction that GAWHE is going. It's been a smaller association, but it's been beneficial for folks. But now that we've become more well known, it's becoming bigger and I'm looking forward to continuing that growth for the association.

Ulemu Luhanga: 14:49

Wonderful.

Tyrese Hinkins-Jones: 14:50

Thank you for reminding me about that one.

Ulemu Luhanga: 14:52

Most welcome. And it's amazing to hear how you have leadership roles, not just here at Emory, but in these multiple different spaces, which is wonderful.

Tyrese Hinkins-Jones: 15:04

Thank you.

Ulemu Luhanga: 15:04

You're welcome. What advice would you give someone interested in doing the same type of leadership role or work that you do?

Tyrese Hinkins-Jones: 15:16

Yeah, so this one was something that I thought about and thinking about every role that I've taken and how did I go into it, and what would I tell my next self or the person that's going to replace me in this? And I think the biggest thing is make sure you go into it with a plan. Don't just come into it expecting that everybody's going to throw everything at you and that you're just coming into this well-oiled machine, because that's not how it works. I think in every time that I've gotten a promotion, especially in this work, I've always set goals for myself every single year, not just individually, but for the program, for the team, at least one goal for each of those categories. And I think preparing yourself in that way really sets a foundation for how that work will be in the future.

Tyrese Hinkins-Jones: 16:05

And so definitely having a plan in place, it may not always work out the way that you think it is, but not having anything in place definitely sets you up for, I'm not going to say failure, but for a very challenging time in this work, if you don't have an idea of what you're wanting to do. Oftentimes, we work with people who say, "Hey, I want to do this, I want to do that. This is what..." But have no plan of action around how to get there. And so I'm like, "Oh, wonderful ideas, but how we getting there? What are we doing? What steps are we taking to get to that point?" And oftentimes people are looking at you to make that decision or create that path. And I'm like, "Yeah, okay. Learning very quickly that if I'm going into this work, I definitely have to have a plan for what I'm doing."

Tyrese Hinkins-Jones: 16:54

So that's the best advice that I can give for anyone coming into this. Working as a director has been... Now what this is four, five months for me, it's been an experience. It's a path that I've wanted, and now being able to operate in it is wonderful, but it can become a challenge when we're talking about people because again, everybody's not always aligned with what your plan is. So you have to go into it having a plan, but also giving yourself that grace to know that, hey, it may not necessarily work out this way, but at least I have this kind of foundation for how I'm going to go approach this work.

Ulemu Luhanga: 17:32

Wonderful, thank you. And so I want to build off of something you said at the beginning of your answer, which was envisioning the person who's going to take the role after you. And so that's something that people don't always think about. So can you tell us more about your views around succession planning?

Tyrese Hinkins-Jones: 17:53

Absolutely. One, I think anyone coming into a leadership role should always start with succession planning. You're not going to be the person sitting in that role forever, at least that's how I think. When I'm interviewing people and I'm talking to people in terms of my team particular in particular, I always say, "I don't hire people with the expectation that they're going to be here forever." I say that all the time because who is not goal-oriented and wanting to move forward? So you always have to think about the next step. So I'm all for succession planning, and I think it's important in any organization and what you're doing, especially if you're in a leadership role. And I think having that kind of cross-training plan to make sure people know every single role that's happening in the team. And even if you don't do a day-to-day, you have an idea of how that's going.

Tyrese Hinkins-Jones: 18:48

Because there may be opportunities where you have someone that's working at a lower level that could easily go up into that next level because they've been cross-training and know the work that is involved in that. So I'm a firm believer in it, and I think that's how any organization should operate. And that I'm coming into this role knowing I'm not going to sit here forever. So who can I bring up? Who can I lift up with me and help them learn while I'm in this, so that if ever, whatever situation, I win the lottery, whatever happens, then I'm out this piece, that they can definitely roll up into that space and make that transition very seamless for the organization? So I am pro succession planning. Pro, all the way pro.

Ulemu Luhanga: 19:31

Thank you. I totally hear it in your excitement and energy as you talk about that.

Tyrese Hinkins-Jones: 19:38

Absolutely. Go succession planning. I'm a cheerleader at heart, and I'm always cheering for that, and we need to have that in every space.

Ulemu Luhanga: 19:47

I agree. I agree. That's wonderful. So reflecting on all that you have done thus far, you've got these different types of leadership roles within Emory, outside Emory, what has been one of your greatest successes in your mind?

Tyrese Hinkins-Jones: 20:08

Oh, man. So we could go a lot of different directions with this, but if I kept it professional, my biggest... I would say SPACE is probably the biggest thing for me. Starting this work in 2007 and coming from a space where we had conferences that were dedicated to the work that we do, we were treated in a different way. And then coming into this environment where it was like you're seen, but not necessarily heard. SPACE has really created an opportunity for me to expand myself, but also really hear the stories of other people and the work that they are doing. No role is small in terms of the work that the staff do, and so hearing people's different experiences and how they've gotten where they are, and just being able to hear those stories, look at the different processes and procedures that people have put in place behind the scenes that really drive the work of their program. That's exciting, and that's really been a passion for me.

Tyrese Hinkins-Jones: 21:19

I don't see myself necessarily as a people developer. I'm like a people cheerleader. It's like, "Oh, my gosh, you are doing this wonderful great work." People need to hear that. This is a space for you where people can actually hear that. I'm all about everybody winning, and so for me, SPACE has has created that opportunity for me to be the forever cheerleader for people. And that's not everybody's play, and I get that, and I totally understand that. But I think celebrating people and the work that they do is important. And not having that space, people start to lose themselves in that. And it's like, "Okay, I think my work is important, but nobody's telling me that. No one's saying that." And so creating that space for other people to really have their work recognized and shown and showcased has probably been the biggest accomplishment for me. And yes, I'm glad this is here. I'm glad we're doing something like this because it's needed, it's necessary. Everybody wants to feel wanted, they want to feel needed. They want to feel that their work is purposeful.

Tyrese Hinkins-Jones: 22:20

And so creating that opportunity, that space, we keep saying that, for people to do that, it makes me happy on the inside and out. So yeah, that's probably the biggest one for me.

Ulemu Luhanga: 22:33

That's wonderful. And as you said, it's big. It's national, so congratulations to you and your team.

Tyrese Hinkins-Jones: 22:40

Thank you. Thank you very much.

Ulemu Luhanga: 22:46

What are or were your biggest growth opportunities to date in your pathway as a leader?

Tyrese Hinkins-Jones: 22:55

Yes. So to know me, even though I have this kind of bright, bubbly personality, public speaking is not my forte. However, I have been pushed and challenged in a way to have been forced to get before people, speak, talk about my own work, which I don't do. So that's definitely pushed me in a way that I've never imagined, and so that. And then also, just really connecting with people. It's so easy to get in your own little space and zone, and just focus on what you got to do and get that out and then go on to the next thing, which I'm really bad about. Not bad, it's just what I do. I do something I'm like out of sight, out of mind, going onto the next thing. But taking that time to step back and really celebrate that and share that with people.

Tyrese Hinkins-Jones: 23:50

I had an interesting experience today, something that I created some time ago and shared it with some faculty members, and I told them, "Hey, just take a look. Give me some feedback if you feel like it, totally fine if you can't. Whatever." And then hearing back from them was like, "Oh, my gosh, this is absolutely amazing. Where has this been all my life? Why haven't we been doing this for all of this time?" And to get that back, it's like, I'm not necessarily looking for accolades or anything like that, but to hear that you are doing work that is meaningful and it's a resource for people. And it was like, why did I hold off on that? Why didn't I do this before? Why did I say, "Okay, yeah, I built this in the background, but I'm going to wait and see if somebody asks me before I put this down." And then now realizing that people needed this a long time ago, and case in point, the feedback that I got, really taking in all of that is a growth point for me because I don't do that. That's just not what I do.

Tyrese Hinkins-Jones: 24:53

I do something and I move on to the next thing. And so it's like as much as I want to cheer for other people, I don't always cheer for myself, and that's a growing point for me that I'm truly trying to embrace. And it's still work in progress, but try to do better at it. But I'm always going to cheer for others, and I just like doing that. That's just who I am.

Ulemu Luhanga: 25:14

I love that. And I think it is very important as you're highlighting. If you're a cheerleader for others, you are also a person who should be cheered.

Tyrese Hinkins-Jones: 25:24

Yes, I'm working on it. I'm working on it, promise.

Ulemu Luhanga: 25:27

Wonderful. Wonderful. So as you think about all that you've done to date, what do you love most about what you do?

Tyrese Hinkins-Jones: 25:40

Oh, wow. I think what I love the most is being able to have the space to be creative, to know me is to know I love color. Everywhere you see me, you see color, that's how my brain works. And so being able to be creative in the space, even in an educational space, it's like everyone doesn't get that opportunity to do what they love. And I feel like being able to be creative, I don't necessarily get to do it in my day-to-day work all the time. I create spaces to be able to do that. I'd love to do more of that, but that's what I thrive off of. I thrive off of partnership, and I thrive off of being able to be creative in the spaces that I work in.

Tyrese Hinkins-Jones: 26:28

And so that is big for me. I think I probably wouldn't be able to survive if I didn't have that space to operate and be creative. And creative is not necessarily drawing or designing all the time. It's really just being able to have that blank canvas in front of you and say, "Hey, what can I create today? Who has a problem that I can solve? And how can I help them? What technology tool can I use to streamline this process?" It can be an array of things. And I think being able to do that, whether it's a personal or professional space, that brings me the most joy and keeps the happiness going for me.

Ulemu Luhanga: 27:10

Wonderful. Wonderful. And yes, I feel like the listeners are missing out on seeing the bright colors right now. She's wearing bright pink.

Tyrese Hinkins-Jones: 27:23

Yes. Color, I'm all about the colors. All about them.

Ulemu Luhanga: 27:28

Absolutely. Absolutely. All right, so we're coming to the last few core questions. And so I want you to take a step back and think about education and this education space broadly that you work in. And talk to us a bit about what are your passions around education?

Tyrese Hinkins-Jones: 27:49

Wow. So that's a big one. I think passion around education is really creating spaces for people to learn and grow, whether it's developing people or teaching people on how to use a new tool, or thinking about content that they have to put out there and different ways that they can teach that content or share that content and be a facilitator of that content. I think that's a passion of mine that I kind of suppressed. And it's only because I've been working in this role where I've been so operations focused that I haven't always had that space to really sit down with content experts and say, "Hey, okay, this is the content that you want to put out there. How can we be creative? Or what can we think about in terms of how we want to approach this content with the learners?"

Tyrese Hinkins-Jones: 28:45

So that's a big passion of mine that I'm dabbling in more now than I've... I haven't always been able to do that in the past, but now trying to do more of that. But I think the other passion on that, I've recently discovered, again, not a people developer per se, but really encouraging people in terms of their skillset and getting that out there and showing people, self included on that, and really just highlighting and showcasing that work for others. Whether it's the faculty member, whether it's a staff member, whoever it is, really being able to highlight people in the work that they do is a huge passion of mine. I don't know where that comes from except for the fact that I'm really about highlighting others. And I think it is just the cheerleader in me, and it's like, you doing good stuff, let's show that off. Let's do it. I feel like that's something that's always been with me, and it'll continue to be with me. I love highlighting other people. I love cheering other people on. That truly is a passion for me.

Tyrese Hinkins-Jones: 29:54

And then just doing purpose field work too. There needs to be a reason for why we're doing it. There needs to be a purpose behind it. And I've been fortunate to be able to be involved in a lot of different projects and different things where there was purpose behind that. So I can go on and on about this, but those are kind of my passions around education specifically, and just making people feel like they are needed, wanted, their work matters in their educational space, wherever it may be. And anything I can do to help facilitate that and move it forward, like I said, whether it's learning a new technology tool on how to share content, whatever, that's what I'm really passionate about.

Ulemu Luhanga: 30:43

Wonderful. I think that encompasses, as you said, the big cheerleader in you. The recognition, the passion in supporting people as they're trying to learn new things, and so that's amazing.

Tyrese Hinkins-Jones: 30:56

Absolutely. You said it better than I did.

Ulemu Luhanga: 30:58

Oh, I just summarized. I just summarized. Okay, so last question. We recognize that, yes, you work in education, you're an education leader, but you are more than that. And so what is one thing you do outside of work to help maintain joy in life and practice?

Tyrese Hinkins-Jones: 31:23

Oh, man. That can be so many different things. So I think the biggest thing is probably anything with my children and my family. My kids have recently got into soccer, so I've become a soccer mom, and so that's allowed me to be a cheerleader. And so doing all the things and really, actually, watching my children grow with my husband and seeing us in them has been an interesting journey. It's been fun, but it's been interesting too. They both have different personalities, and they're definitely on different ends of the spectrum in terms of who they are and what they do and their passions and all that stuff. And being able to see that it's like, okay, wait, I created this person and now I get to see how they grow and learn and how they do things.

Tyrese Hinkins-Jones: 32:23

It's an added notch when they're doing something in the whole education, creative space for me, for sure. But yeah, outside of work it's all about family for me. I am big on family, not just my kids, my husband, but even my twin sister, my extended family. We're really close. It is just us. And so being able to spend time with them always brings me joy.

Ulemu Luhanga: 32:50

Thank you. And I am sure you brought a lot of people joy as they listened to this episode.

Tyrese Hinkins-Jones: 32:58

Well, thank you. I've had fun with this. This is another way to extend myself that I'm a little nervous about, but it was fun. Thank you for having me.

Ulemu Luhanga: 33:08

Thank you for joining us. Any last comments, questions, things that have popped into your head as we've had this discussion?

Tyrese Hinkins-Jones: 33:17

No, I just say people should extend themselves. Do what you're scared of, right? I was nervous about this. I'm nervous about speaking in front of people, all those different things. And education's always about learning, right? We're always growing, we're always learning. So I feel like people should extend themselves and really do what they need to do to grow, to be happy, upward movement, all of those different things. So this has been an experience and I'm sure more to come. And I just thank you for allowing me to be able to be in this space to do this with you.

Ulemu Luhanga: 33:53

Most welcome. And thank you for letting us be part of your growth and learning journey.

Tyrese Hinkins-Jones: 33:59

Thank you. Thank you.